Contents 1 Hollywood history 1.1 Early discussion 1.2 Later discussion 2 Alternative name derivation 3 No Drinking in Hollywood 4 Filmmaking patents issue 5 Removing phrase "relatively low-income" from lede section 6 External links modified 7 External links modified

Hollywood history[edit] Early discussion[edit] I am the grandson of HJ Whitley, the Father of Hollywood. I am 86 years old and I am going to try to correct the history of Hollywood section. Because of my age it may take awhile. I would appreciate that when I do post text with references that the old history which is incorrect is not just put back. I realize that a book published in 1936 or so had much incorrect information and is used as a source for future books that are now being published. The information I have came from my grandparents and sources that are reliable. I will reference them and hopefully this will solve the problem. If you have any questions feel free to address them in this section. I am not well versed in computers so I hope you will be patient with me. Thanks for helping me correct history. Whithj (talk) 21:46, 16 June 2010 (UTC) whithj Thanks for participating. Your knowledge of the topic is appreciated. As you may appreciate, we can't rely on the personal knowledge of Wikipedia editors so a core policy states that all content must be verifiable from reliable, published sources. So long as you cite those sources other editors can follow you and clean up any formatting issues or other computer-type problems. This page has many watchers so you're not alone.   Will Beback  talk  22:20, 16 June 2010 (UTC) Whitley Papers (1889-1946) Are these papers published or in a public library? If they are privately held then they aren't verifiable and shouldn't be used as sources. "H. J. Whitley the Town Builder" Los Angeles Times (may 18, 1902). There are many mentions of Whitley in the L.A. Times archive, but I can't find this article on that date. Is it correct?   Will Beback  talk  01:30, 17 June 2010 (UTC) The papers are in the UCLA Library. The LA Times article is correct. Contact the LA Times archives.Whithj (talk) 07:07, 17 June 2010 (UTC)whithj What is the actual source? A letter, a diary, or? If it's not published, then even if it's in a library it probably doesn't qualify. If it's marginal then it'd be best to attribute. Something like, "According to Whitley's diary..."   Will Beback  talk  07:17, 17 June 2010 (UTC) The publications are in the Charles E. Young Research Library Department of Special Collections. They have been historically verified by the library staffWhithj (talk) 07:26, 17 June 2010 (UTC)whithj. Los Angeles Times Historical Archives (ProQuest) 2 Digitized reproduction of the Los Angeles Times from its beginnings. Currently contains 1881-1986. Searchable by (keywords, author's names, articles, dates, etc.) or browseable by full page or issue. Includes photos, graphics and advertisements. Found in the Los Angles Public Library. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Whithj (talk • contribs) 08:00, 17 June 2010 (UTC) The Whitley papers, if they haven't been published, are probably not reliable, verifiable sources. The Keith book was self-published, so it isn't usable either. Assuming that the Times articles can be verified, they should be fine but we should take self-serving assertions with a grain of salt. The best sources are academic books and articles, and we should try to use those where available.   Will Beback  talk  06:42, 7 July 2010 (UTC) Please go to It has many of the L A Times Articles and will continue to have more each day. It is very time consuming to post all this so please be patient. The Keith book is no longer self-published. It has been picked up by Tate Publishing and will be released August 2010. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Whithj (talk • contribs) 06:28, 10 July 2010 (UTC) When Tate [1]? publishes it then the situation changes. That hasn't happened yet. Let's avoid adding anything more from it until we know the status. As for the Whitley papers, unless they are also going to be published they aren't suitable sources.   Will Beback  talk  21:36, 12 July 2010 (UTC) Actually the book is published and copies are sold. The release date is August 2010 because it is waiting for the audio to be finished. The Whitley Papers are used as sources in the Owensmouth Baby by Catherine Mulholland done by the Santa Susana Press which is a University Press. Did you go and look at the Los Angeles Times References at as I asked. You will see that there are quite a few of them listed. Can you help link them. I am 86 and getting worn out trying to do this but I will not stop until it is done. It may just take me a while. I am sure that you and I have much in common - mainly our desire to make sure that history is told truthfully. Also I had asked if their was any area of concern? I have added some links by scanning a few pages of Catherine Mulhollands book. She is the daughter of William Mulholland. I am sure you have heard of him.Whithj (talk) 02:07, 13 July 2010 (UTC) Please stop adding citations to the Whitley papers. And this "reference" doesn't appear sufficient either: First Hollywood movie filmed on Whitley Estate on October 26, 1911 The Keith book, if published by a known publisher is OK, but please don't over do it.   Will Beback  talk  07:27, 15 July 2010 (UTC) Do you realize, you sound like an effing idiot, Will Beback? If it were up to you, the Bible would never have been written, because it is based on oral tradition handed down for centuries with no "verifiable sources" before someone set pen to a papyrus scroll. I'd rather trust the word of a lucid old man than what I find on the pages of Time Magazine or the New York Times.—QuicksilverT @ 17:37, 20 August 2010 (UTC) I am sure Will Beback will offer his or her own response to the above, but I would offer two comments: (1) Ad hominem attacks are totally inappropriate here (or, really, anywhere); and (2)you really need to read WP:NOR. Wikipedia is a lot of things, but it is not the Bible, nor any other compendium of oral histories. One of Wikipedia's basic rules is that all content must be verifiable from reliable, published sources. DoctorJoeE (talk) 21:00, 20 August 2010 (UTC) Hi Doctor Joe. Perhaps you could help with the verification. There are many sources at but since I am 86 years old it is hard for me to seat at a computer to long. The Father of Hollywood by Galeyn Whitley Keith can be purchased at The book by Katherine Mulholland can be bought on Amazon. She used the Whitley Papers in her book so they must have been verifiable. Many of the books are self published that are used as sources on the Hollywood site yet they have not been questioned. Why?Whithj (talk) 05:27, 25 August 2010 (UTC) If you think my comment above sounds cranky and irascible, DoctorJoeE, you're right. Read from the top, user Will Beback's handling of this matter comes across to me as pure snobbery, like stroking a cat against the grain. Maybe Will Beback will miss this opportunity, but someone who is seriously researching Hollywood history will stumble across this Talk Page and jump on it. Now, there are many Wikipedia articles that use "published" sources, but the "reliability" thereof is debatable, and no one seems to question it. It sounds to me that the material user Whithj is offering may meet or exceed the WP criteria for acceptability, except it's in printed form and someone would actually need to get a physical copy and read it. Evidently, certain Wikipedians couldn't be bothered, because it's not a few keystrokes and mouse clicks away on their computers.—QuicksilverT @ 22:41, 25 August 2010 (UTC) What it looks like to me is that a descendant of Whitley and single purpose editor is deleting sourced material and replacing it with less-reliable sources, including a book that he presumably wrote, which promote the role of Whitley in the history of Hollywood. Even if we walk/drive/fly to the UCLA library, personal papers are not a published source so they're unusable.   Will Beback  talk  23:09, 25 August 2010 (UTC) Okay, chill, please, everybody. Indulge me for a nanosecond and look at the big picture: Our common goal here, presumably, is to create a reliable reference work AND convince the general public that it IS reliable. Whenever I tell anybody I'm involved with Wikipedia, 9 times out of 10 the response is, "Why are you wasting your time? Everybody knows it's full of bogus information!" That's the conventional wisdom -- and for a while, it was true. And while it's a lot less true now, the perception remains. A big reason for permitting only verifiable content is to dispel that perception. I agree we sometimes throw out the baby with the bathwater by refusing unpublished observations, but only by making everything verifiable will we ever end up with a true encyclopedia whose accuracy will not be questioned. Whithj, I will be happy to help to the extent that I can, and I'll give it a go as time permits, because I believe your intentions are honorable and unselfish. And I believe there can be a place in Wikipedia for unique information like yours, as long as we can find a way to meet the verifiability criteria. But let's all be civil about it, okay? Cheers, DoctorJoeE (talk) 03:32, 26 August 2010 (UTC) The first version of The Father of Hollywood was published by BookSurge, a vanity press. The new edition is published by Tate Publishing & Enterprises, which is also considered a vanity press.[2] Per WP:SELFPUB, neither edition would qualify as a source for Wikipedia.   Will Beback  talk  03:54, 26 August 2010 (UTC) Tate Publishing is a Traditional Publisher. Traci Jones, Marketing Representative, Tate Publishing —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk • contribs) I presume that this posting comes as a result of a request form an editor here. Tate may see itself as a traditional publisher, but that is not how others see it. The "Publisher Standards Board" calls it a "misleading book publishing" company, and a scam to be avoided.[3]   Will Beback  talk  22:15, 30 August 2010 (UTC) Actually who is the "Publisher Standards Board" I tried all the links on their site and they go to no where. That said I wonder if you have even looked at the links I have tried to work on. You will see there are many. Why do you still question H J Whitley's role in Hollywood? Do you still question that he is the "Father of Hollywood'? What other information do you have that were historically printed before 1950? Thanks for letting me know where you are getting historically correct info so I can review it. Whithj (talk) 22:28, 30 August 2010 (UTC) They call themselves "The Self Regulatory Trade Organization (SRTO) for the Book Publishing Industry". Elsewhere they say they are re-doing their website, which appears to have gone poorly.[4] The view of Tate is shared by others. The well-known blog, Writers Beware, includes Tate on their '"Two Thumbs Down" Publishers List'.[5] Note the comments from readers/authors. Here's a 49-page thread on Tate Publishing in the Absolute Write forum.[6] I'm not questioning that Whitley had the nickname "Father of Hollywood". I'm questioning how much weight he deserves in this and other articles, and the use of sources that don't meet WP:V. An unpublished diary, for example. There are numerous books on the history of the Los Angeles area and Hollywood in particular: History of Hollywood, by Edwin O. Palmer 1937 History of Hollywood by Patricia Adler 1968 Hollywood, land and legend by Zelda Cini and Bob Crane, with Peter H. Brown. 1980 Hollywood, the first hundred years by Bruce T. Torrence. 1982 Early Hollywood Marc Wanamaker and Robert W. Nudelman. 2007 There is no lack of reliable sources available for this article.   Will Beback  talk  23:07, 30 August 2010 (UTC) I find it interesting that the first book you listed as reliable is a book by Edwin O Palmer. It is a self-published book. It also had a very limited printing and would be almost impossible for most people to verify. I am posting a link to the Title page and also a comment made by the author. He states that many errors have been made in the book as much of the information is just his memory about what he heard from others. He was not at the events. [7]Additionally attached is a letter by H J Whitley. He had concerns about Palmer's book when he was alive and hoped that he could convince Palmer to correct his misinformation. [8]. I also contacted the publisher of "Early Hollywood" by Arcadia Publishing. I asked them to correct their mistakes but they said to contact the author as they did not monitor what was printed. They just published what the author wrote. I attempted to contact Robert Nudelman but he had passed away. My daughter talked to Bruce Torrence who told her his information had come from Palmer's book. That is why his information is also incorrect. I have not had time yet to contact the others but I am fairly confident that Palmer's book was their source of information regarding early Hollywood. Can you give me any reliable sources that comply to Wikipedia guidelines. I am going to repost the diary information you deleted as it is part of a published book and historical magazine published by the University of Pacific, The California Historian. Tate Publishing is a traditional publisher. Please do not use Google Blogs to give misinformation. The Publisher has stated this information on Wikipedia and you should have not deleted that information. Why are you so confrontational? What is your true agenda in this matter?Whithj (talk) 15:42, 1 September 2010 (UTC) We may not cite an unpublished diary, even if portions of it have been published. We may cite those published portions, referencing the book in which they were published. I will continue to remove any citations to the unpublished diary or the unpublished papers. I have not deleted any postings from this page. The marketing director of Tate is welcome to give her view of that company, but it contradicts those of outsiders. We should probably refer this to the reliable sources noticeboard to get more community input. The only agenda I have here is to enforce Wikipedia policies. I am not "Bruce", and I don't care whether it was Wilcox or Whitley who named Hollywood. On the other hand, I get the feeling that it matters a great deal to you. Agenda-driven editing on Wikipedia is a serious problem, and if you continue to use Wikipedia to promote your ancestor's achievements, beyond what can be supported by reliable sources, then that may require administrative action. Please be more cooperative.   Will Beback  talk  20:22, 1 September 2010 (UTC) See Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Tate Publishing: The Father of Hollywood.   Will Beback  talk  21:43, 1 September 2010 (UTC) Since you seem to not like self published books maybe you should delete Gregory Paul Williams book. It was self-published. It is in the biography section at the bottom of the page.Whithj (talk) 23:29, 1 September 2010 (UTC) Thanks for pointing that out. On closer inspection there was even a third self-published book there. Since the two bibliography sections seem to be a target for book spam, I've deleted them both.   Will Beback  talk  00:08, 2 September 2010 (UTC) Please do not restore non-compliant sources. In addition to the previously discussed sources, this one is also inappropriate: Al Christie. The main reason is that is is mostly sourced to Wikipedia itself. One part, the part being used here apparently, is sourced to "". If we follow that link, we find the material there is sourced to Wikipedia as well.[9] In other words, it is a circular reference. WP:Circular.   Will Beback  talk  01:26, 2 September 2010 (UTC) Later discussion[edit] Now that we're six years on from this discussion, I think it's time to revisit and modify how the page represents how Hollywood acquired its name. The second paragraph within "Early history and development" currently begins with "[a]ccording to the diary of H. J. Whitley, known as the "Father of Hollywood", on his honeymoon in 1886 he stood at the top of the hill looking out over the valley." Note 7 points not to H.J. Whitley's diary, but to something said to have come from an 1886 entry in the diary of his wife, Margaret V. Whitley. Gaelyn Whitley Keith, author of The Father of Hollywood (discussion above), and owner of the site at which that image given in Note 7 sits, has told me that "[t]he page was hand written by my great-grandmother, Margaret Virginia Whitley. It is an account of her honeymoon adventure with my great-grandfather H J Whitley. I do not have an exact date of the writing but the event occurred in 1886." The image at Note 7, then, seems not to be a diary entry and cannot be documented (at least as of this writing) as contemporaneous with the anecdote told in this piece of writing. Getting an exact date and context for this piece of writing would be helpful; in the absence of such, the evidence for the Whitley anecdote is quite questionable in terms of documentation. I've been unable to find a contemporaneous or roughly contemporaneous telling of the Whitley anecdote in historical newspaper databases. Although its absence from, say, Southern California newspapers in the first half of the 20th-century isn't exactly damning, it is curious and perhaps suggests that the Whitley explanation for the naming of Hollywood existed solely as a family anecdote. I don't know how Hollywood, California acquired its name and I have no horse in this race. I do understand the Whitley family's desire to preserve a place for H.J. and Margaret Whitley in the founding of Hollywood, but I regret to say that evidence that this anecdote reflects the inspiration for the naming of Hollywood is lacking. Consequently, the Whitley explanation should receive far less prominence on this page or it should be removed. Regardless of who came up with the California toponym, I believe the earliest appearance of "Hollywood" with respect to the subdivision near Cahuenga Pass is February 2, 1887. The map is said to have been filed on February 1, 1887. There are slightly later appearances in Los Angeles-area newspapers that link the toponym to H.H. Wilcox. If no strenuous objections crop up I'll likely amend the section on the naming of Hollywood within the next 30 days. B Taylor-Blake (talk) 17:04, 10 January 2017 (UTC) Anything that could be done to improve this article would be welcomed by everybody. If your changes would be extensive, I would suggest you put them in a Sandbox, which you could create as an adjunct to your page, and we could look it over there. Otherwise, you might write an article for a WP:Reliable news or feature site, have it vetted and published, and then we could use that article as a source for Wikipedia. The important thing would be for an outside editor to deem it acceptable, so WP could link to it. Just my opinion, and I hope to hear from you soon. BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 18:25, 10 January 2017 (UTC) Thank you for this and for creating two discussion sections for this topic. I doubt any changes I'll make will be extensive at all (in part because so little is known about how the toponym came to be), but I wanted to lay out now my reasons for thinking changes needed to be made. I appreciate the feedback I've gotten from you. B Taylor-Blake (talk) 19:32, 10 January 2017 (UTC)

Alternative name derivation[edit] Toyon is a prominent component of the coastal sage scrub plant community, and is a part of drought-adapted chaparral and mixed oak woodland habitats. It is also known by the common names Christmas berry and California holly. Accordingly, "the abundance of this species in the hills above Los Angeles... gave rise to the name Hollywood."[1] Kortoso (talk) 22:16, 5 July 2016 (UTC) "'Tis the season when the rich green crown of the toyon bush is aglow with a mass of red berries. At a time when most members of the chaparral community have donned their winter gray, the toyon--also known variously as Christmas berry or California holly--is the most festive of flora. "This holly-day hike to Mt. Hollywood, highest peak in Griffith Park, offers fine clear-day views of the Los Angeles basin, framed by the Christmas berry bushes growing alongside the trail. It's believed that masses of this California native shrub growing on the hills above Hollywood gave the community its name. "Botanically speaking, the 6-to-25-foot high evergreen shrub is in no sense a holly, but its timely appearance is a delight to the holiday hiker and something to point to when friends from colder climes claim that "there's nothing Christmasy about Southern California." (It might seem inviting to deck your halls with boughs of California holly, but collection is strictly forbidden by state law.)"[10] Kortoso (talk) 19:26, 4 November 2016 (UTC) Given that there were already half a dozen places in the USA called Hollywood by the time of the founding of Hollywood, Ca., I think the story about the Chinese man is probably apocryphal. For that matter, there have been places in Ireland and England called Hollywood for centuries.Ordinary Person (talk) 03:27, 4 August 2017 (UTC)

No Drinking in Hollywood[edit] The section Incorporation and merger says: Hollywood was incorporated as a municipality on November 14, 1903, by a vote of 88 for and 77 against. On January 30, 1904, the voters in Hollywood decided, by a vote of 113 to 96, for the banishment of liquor in the city, except when it was being sold for medicinal purposes. Neither hotels nor restaurants were allowed to serve wine or liquor before or after meals. Obviously this was a city ordinance and nothing to do with the later Congress imposition of Prohibition, ( and so not repealed by that Repeal ), but was it ever ended, or has no alcohol ever been drunk in Hollywood from 1904 to now ? Claverhouse (talk) 21:04, 14 September 2016 (UTC) Good question. Of course that ordinance is no longer in effect, and it was probably ended even before the two cities, Hollywood and Los Angeles, consolidated. I will do some research and try to get the answer. I thank you for the comment. BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 04:00, 16 September 2016 (UTC) I checked the L.A. Times through the public library and could find no indication that the ordinance was repealed. Short of going to the city archives, I don't think we are going to find any date for it. BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 04:35, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

Filmmaking patents issue[edit] This part of the article is informative "By 1912, major motion-picture companies had set up production near or in Los Angeles.[17] In the early 1900s, most motion picture patents were held by Thomas Edison's Motion Picture Patents Company in New Jersey, and filmmakers were often sued to stop their productions. To escape this, filmmakers began moving out west, where Edison's patents could not be enforced" but it should probably name who these filmmakers are, like which ones or reference a source to the statement. I've noticed neither this article nor nor mention exactly which studios would not pay their licensing fees to Edison. The articles only mention that film makers began moving out west but none of the articles name exactly which ones did so to escape Edison. One of the articles mentions which companies moved west and I can see the years they moved on the company wiki page but moving doesn't necessarily mean that they didn't pay. One/all of these articles needs to name who the companies are so it can be fact checked or at least give a reliable source to the statements. Lenneth (talk) 13:49, 9 January 2017 (UTC)

Removing phrase "relatively low-income" from lede section[edit] I am removing the phrase "relatively low income" from the lede. There was a discussion over at the West Hills, Los Angeles talk page (,_Los_Angeles#Possible_canvassing) regarding terms like this. The RFC (Request for Comment) at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject_Cities/Archive_19#Request_for_comment was closed by Robert McClenon as rough consensus against the inclusion of terms such as "affluent" or "poor" in ledes to articles on cities and towns in general. The scope was not just "all Los Angeles neighborhoods", but all settlement articles. And it wasn't restricted to the word "affluent", but all similar terms. Phatblackmama (talk) 23:34, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

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External links modified[edit] Hello fellow Wikipedians, I have just modified 8 external links on Hollywood. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes: Added archive to Added archive to Added archive to Added archive to Added archive to Added archive to Added archive to Added archive to When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs. You may set the |checked=, on this template, to true or failed to let other editors know you reviewed the change. If you find any errors, please use the tools below to fix them or call an editor by setting |needhelp= to your help request. If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool. If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool. If you are unable to use these tools, you may set |needhelp=<your help request> on this template to request help from an experienced user. Please include details about your problem, to help other editors. Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 17:01, 5 December 2017 (UTC) ^ Rundel, Philip W; Gustafson, Robert (2005). Introduction to the Plant Life of Southern California: Coast to Foothills. Berkeley and Los Angeles: University of California Press. p. 103. ISBN 0-520-24199-1. Retrieved from "" Categories: B-Class California articlesHigh-importance California articlesB-Class Los Angeles articlesHigh-importance Los Angeles articlesLos Angeles task force articlesB-Class Southern California articlesHigh-importance Southern California articlesSouthern California task force articlesWikiProject California articles

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